Does a Sonic cup of ice look exceptionally good to you??? Are you severely iron deprived with a form of Pica called Pagophagia??? Apparently I am 🙂 !
Last week I noted that I am relapsing with my fatigue and it has me discouraged and concerned.?? Here are some random observations:
I was feeling great until I ate a slice of pizza one day about 3 weeks ago.?? Actually it was the very afternoon I wrote the Happy post that I, ironically, started??getting tired.?? I assumed it was because I had been on low carb for several weeks and my system rejected pizza carbs.?? However, when I got back on the wagon the energy didn’t return as expected.?? Shortly thereafter I started my cycle.?? I wasn’t surprised to be energy deprived that week – that is normal for me.?? The week after though I was VERY energy deprived.?? Sat and Sunday I felt better and today is a medium day.?? Also note that last week was my birthday and I had about 4 days of some carb cheating due to various dining out celebratory experiences :).
So now I have mixed clues.?? Could be tied to carbs.?? Could be tied to cycle.?? Could be random.?? Could be both.?? Hmmmmm….
Since Aunt Beck is having similar anemia issues, I have been brain storming and researching this because more and more I have to wonder if my anemia is the source of my fatigue symptoms.?? After she told her Dr.s that my iron was at THREE and they told her that was “critical” and then??she received iron transfusions for a ferratin of 9.7, I had to wonder if I should be getting infusions.?? I started reading about this online and come to find out, many women are getting infusions who don’t even have levels as low as mine.?? So would infusions help??? But more importantly, WHY don’t I have any iron??? Again, if it weren’t for fatigue issues, I probably wouldn’t research so much.
This weekend I was reading a friends blog and noticed she had an iron infusion last year for anemia.?? I wrote her and she asked me two unusual questions.?? First, do I crave ice and second do I crave peppermint?
I have had the day to think about this and here was my basic response to those questions:
* I chew ice every day and always at night when I am watching TV.
* I take on average at least 3 evening baths a week because I get cold eating so much ice.?? Then I take a cup of crushed ice to the bath with me:).
* I order my ice with a bit of diet coke – not the other way around.??I ALWAYS order my drinks FULL of ice and sometimes ask for an extra 44 ouncer of JUST ice.
* Sonic is the best place on earth to get ice and I like to keep bags of it in my freezer.
* I bought an ice shaver in January and I use it regularly.
* I have been worrying about my teeth because in the last several months I have been eating A LOT of ice.
* I wonder if my crunching is bugging people.
Do do I have an ice craving? :)?? I think the answer is a solid YES though I didn’t realize it until it was brought to my attention.??
This craving is called pagophagia.?? It is a form of Pica.?? Pica is defined as an appetite for substances not fit for food such as clay or paper products.?? Pica for ice (pagophagia) is a very specific indicator for iron deficiency anemia.?? Who knew????? :)?? I read a case study online for a woman who had pagophagia.?? Her Hemoglobin was slightly low and her Ferratin was at 6.?? Sounds familiar.
Here were my December numbers:
Hemoglobin 10. 4 (normal 11.5 to 16)
Hematacrit 32.0 (normal 35.0 to 48.0)
MCH 24.2 (normal 27 to 34)
MCV 75 (normal 78 to 100)
MPV 7.2 (normal 7.5-11.5)
RDW 17.4 (normal 11.5 to 14.5)
I didn’t think the above sounded too bad until my Ferratin came back at THREE.?? I wish I would have received a copy of the iron panel because that is where the really crazy results were.?? The first set of tests above just demonstarted anemia.?? The Ferratin level demostrated my extreme low level of iron.?? From what I read, my iron has even been stripped from my bone marrow at this point.?? (And by the way, since I don’t have a copy of the test results, I am assuming the level three was Ferratin because he said my “iron level” – I need to confirm that though).
As for the Peppermint…
* I love peppermint and buy mint extracts regularly.
* I put the extracts in my low carb shakes and teas.
* I wear peppermint lotion and peppermint flavored lip gloss.
* I have a water bottle system that I filled with green mint leaves and turned the water green thus making it look like I was drinking algae.?? Most people would have been embarrassed by a green water tank – I just wanted the mint in my water.?? Jim wouldn’t touch the stuff and thought I was a little nuts. LOL
I called Aunt Beck to tell her about these two things and she said “OH MY GOSH!?? THAT is why I have been eating 10 to 20 peppermints per day!”
I don’t know why the Peppermint craving but I found several online sources that mention this association to low iron.??
My friend also asked if I was weak and dizzy.?? She said her anemia got so bad she couldn’t walk across a room.?? Just last week I was laying in bed and told Jim the room was spinning on me.?? I have had bouts of dizziness off and on in the last year but nothing major.?? The fatigue and weakness….is it possible CFS/FMS is not the cause and that severe anemia is??? Hmmmmmmmm…..
The good news is, if that is the case, I just increase my iron intake and I should get gradually better.?? The bad news is, why the problem in the first place and how to solve it?
According to my research, I have come up with the following possible causes:
1.?? Celiac Disease – I have many symptoms of Celiac and I really HOPE this is not the case.?? I do NOT want to be on a gluten free diet the rest of my life.
2.?? Bleeding ulcers or peptic ulcers – gastro bleeding.?? I think I would know if I was externally bleeding and I can’t tell that I am though I know I do have ulcer issues so this is a mystery question.?? This may be TMI, but I did have mystery blood in my urine several times that Dr.s could never explain and I didn’t have any infections.?? ????
3.?? Cancer – think I would have more progressive symptoms if this were the case
4.?? Too much cycle bleeding.?? I know what my Gyn will say on this one.?? He has been concerned of hemorraging for awhile which is why he wants the hysterectomy.?? Am I bleeding too much??? How would I know??? IF this is the source though, we are back at the square one issue where we started last year.?? Only a hysterectomy would long term solve this problem.?? Big sigh….
I made another appointment with my Dr. for tomorrow afternoon.?? I have been on iron supplements for a couple of months and I want to be retested.?? My goal will be to (a) find out if anemia is the source of my fatigue and get referred to a hemotologist hoping infusions would make a difference (b) find the source so I can curb the whole issue.?? Please pray it isn’t Celiac!?? I really really really don’t want it to be Celiac and Celiac symptoms are suspiciously like FMS.
I know this is not interesting info to anyone but it’s a pain to look up stuff in my garage files when I have questions and this is just an easier place for journaling about it for later recollection.?? Jim keeps strategically hanging things from the garage ceiling that block entrance to my filing cabinet.?? It drives me crazy but I best not complain this week because he has the garage completely rearranged to accomodate the laminate wood floor project.?? Gotta go.?? Ty just bit Tanner.?? Just another day in the life of….. 🙂
25 responses to “Pagophagia”
that is all so interesting and I am personally glad you take the time to write about…. I hope you and your Doctor are able to troubleshoot some of this tomorrow and come up with a plan.
I think it is interesting too. I’ve known about the ice craving/low iron connection for a long time, but I don’t think you ever mentioned your ice chewing anywhere that I would have known to tell you… If you think about the low carb/high protein diet, it would make sense that that kind of diet would help you feel better if you lack iron – you’re getting iron in the meat/protein.
big sighs… anxious for current test results for you.
I was thinking about this this morning and something is bothering me… I don’t understand why your doctor did not tell you to come in immediately to talk about your iron level being 3. Aunt Beck’s doctors through second hand info are telling her that your level is critical, yet your doctor didn’t personally address it? I don’t understand this. If she rec’d a transfusion at a little over 9, then why isn’t your doctor concerned or doing something about it? Am I missing something?
I still think the diet thing makes sense. Perhaps it isn’t the low carbing and the carb cheating that is making the difference in your tiredness and lack of energy, but rather it is the higher intake of protein that is leading to an increase of energy.
Jana I have the same questions you do. The Dr. did say that my iron was so low that it would be physically impossible for me to eat my iron so I don’t know if eating protein is making the difference or not. The only thing I can figure is that since I referenced the girl issues, maybe he was thinking that was definitely the root of the problem and a hysterectomy would solve it? That is the only thing that makes even half sense to me. Or maybe since I was feeling pretty good at that time, he thought that first step should be supplements to see if that made a difference before anything more invasive. I didn’t have any complaints at the time (also recall I was doing my homestudy physical and didn’t want a list of issues on the report 🙂 ). I don’t know. I will bring all this up with him today at my 3:30 appointment. Then there is the aspect of define “critical”. I am clearly very tired but not so tired and weak I am passing out or having trouble walking so irregardless of the tests, I think a Dr. see’s me and thinks I look fairly normal so maybe my body handles this level of deprivation better than most? I could speculate all day. Maybe I am B12 deprived and when I had a B12 shot in Dec and Jan it kicked in late and now has worn off???? I don’t care what it is today – I just want it fixed! 🙂
praying for answers.
Doni – I hope you find some answers!!
I also chew ice always have – I’ve known about the link to low iron but have never had a test come back low. so maybe mine is a preference. However I also LOVE pepermint – lotions etc… so maybe I should have it tested again??
By the way Origins – Sensory Therapy – Peace of Mind is an awsome pepermint smell!! They have candles, massage lotion, stress releif neck lotion and even a little pocket sniffer. 🙂 You’ll love it.
I hope they get this resolved so that you can chew ice and enjoy pepermint just because you like them, not because your body is depleated.
OMG!!! I suffer from the same thing which is how I found your site!! I eat so much ice it’s ridiculous!! I actually make my husband run out and buy bags of ice in the middle of the night if I run out and I broke my ice maker!! And I love peppermint! Put it in my coffee all the time.
My doctor wants me to go to my OBGYN and get that birth control that only lets you get your period a few times a year because I have VERY heavy bleeding and it lasts almost the entire length of my cycle. But those pills scare me! Not getting your period every month seems so unnatural and I’m scared of what long term effects it could have. I have 3 kids and don’t plan on any more, but still…makes me nervous. But my anemia must be really bad right now because this ice eating is out of control! I ask for my beverage the same as you. Pretty much just enough to wet the ice. And then I’m FREEZING from eating so much of it! I was diagnosed 12 years ago when I was pregnant with my oldest and I’ve had 2 more kids since then so I have to imagine it’s pretty bad right now.
Anyway, I’m glad someone is writing about this. Makes me feel less crazy!
Anyway, I
janice – be sure to read doni’s pages about birth control before you go on one. 🙂
I am happy to report that as of January of 2008, my ice craving has substantially subsided due to a full year of daily iron supplements. After reading Janice’s comment I realized that I have really turned a corner. I don’t order extra ice anymore, I don’t bring ice to the bathtub and haven’t used my ice shaver in months, and I put only a little ice in my cup because I don’t want to water down my drink! I didn’t even realize this change had occurred over the months until this post reminded me. My behavior has TOTALLY changed since taking supplements. I guess that proves the pagophagia/iron connection LOL.
I have been craving ice for almost 10 years. At first I didn’t have myown ice maker and I would borrow it from my friends or neighbors and crush it up in the blender or with a meat pounder. It hurt my teeth after awhile. If I,m going to be gone from home for awhile somethmes I’ll take a cooler. I’ll eat a large bag a day on average. But now I have 2 icemakers in my home and don’t spend much time crushing it up. It doesn’t bother my teeth anymore because most of them are bridges or crowns and they have had root canals so they don’t hurt. I found out last your My iron is very low and I’m going thru menopause. sometimes I bleed heavy for 6 weeks straight to the point I can Hardly get out of bed. I don’t have insurance and don’t have a job now because I’ve felt so bad for so long. I just found out I’ve got some tumors and need some surgery, but can’t even afford my iron pills. Well at least I know what’s wrong instead of just wandering wtf is wrong with me? I used to think I was crazy now only everyone elso thinks that!
I just returned (today) from my hematologist’s office where I have been declared cured of the anemia that had sent my life in to a tail spin! I am 49 years old and have had some rather serious issues that lead to a hysterectomy last fall. Due to chronic and heavy bleeding my blood count had fallen dangerously low so I was taking iron supplements which made me sick among other things. After many tests to find the reason for my low count – I didn’t know there were that many scopes out there – I was sent to a hematologist. One of the first questions he asked was “Do you like to munch ice?” I was stunned! Yes! And not only am driving myself and all those around me crazy with my constant munching I have damaged my teeth! It was controlling my life! I couldn’t go anywhere or do anything without my big insulated mug of crushed ice with a little tea poured over it. I was going through about 3 quarts of tea a day about 1/2 cup at a time. Did I mention it was sweet tea? Any idea how much weight I have gained as a result of my ice mania!? Moving on – ???Is my hair thinning?” – “Do I have problems growing my fingernails?” – “Do I have dizzy spells?” – “Do I have problems with concentration / focus?” – “Do I feel tired all the time?” These were just some of the questions to which I answered Yes! Yes! Yes! The nest day I spent the day having an iron treatment which took about 6 hours. That was 13 days ago and almost instantly I no longer craved ice. I have lost 4 pounds with absolutely zero effort. The horrible muscle cramps I was getting in my back are gone. I have loads more energy. I???m not dizzy. In a nutshell, I feel better. Today I was told my blood tests look good and I feel like I am finally on the mend. To any women out there who are suffering with the uncontrollable urge to munch ice – have your blood tested for anemia. It is easy to fix and then, like me, you can throw away your munching accessories, have control of you life back and head to your dentist to repair the damage you have done to your teeth!
Wow- I just found out I have iron deficiency (Ferratin at 7) and I have had a serious peppermint craving for weeks now! Thank you for sharing- I had not associated that craving with the iron issues but now I am going to look into it more.
Honestly.. thanks for that.. I have been eating anything peppermint and desperately craving it while feeling soooo tired.
omg…First of all, i thank you for taking the time out and writing about Pagophagia. I just found out about pagophagia when I recently seen the amount of ice I consume a day(And it’s alot). So i decided to search google for”Chewing Ice” and I came up with the word “Pagophagia” and then I searched under that name and found your site. But I didn’t even know that chewing ice was a form of pica(which i recently found out about also). And reading that it has something to do with low iron, drawn my attention because my mother always told me that i should go to the doctor because i am chewing ice too much, and chewing ice means I am low in iron. But it seems that she was right, well she is on the right track! So seeing all of the symptom you have(which most of the cravings i have) makes me want to check the doctor A.S.A.P.
So thank you for that!!
I have this same thing!!! I love ice so much that I chew it constantly. I even get up in the middle of the night to get a glass of it and when I order a drink, I tell them to fill it to the top with ice and then put the coke or whatever it is I am ordering. I do the whole bath thing with the ice from getting so cold, but I have since bought a little space heater and sit by it and chew ice all night long. I’ve come to love it so much that if I finally did have enough iron, I would feel bad not to get so much enjoyment out of chewing on the ice (this has happened before when I took iron supplements). The supplements make me feel so sick though, so I just keep on eating my ice. It goes with me wherever I go!!! I’ve got to try the mint thing though. I had some ice water with mint leaves and cucumbers over the summer as a refreshment at work and it was sooo good. I never heard about this whole iron injection thing though. I wonder if I could get my doctor to prescribe it? Well, I’m going to get some more ice!!
you need to go & see a very good chinese acupunturist who knows what their doing. I had all these symptoms plus more. Western doctors dont no what to do. Its a hormonal disorder. You can be treated for this with acupunture & chineese herbs…..
Hi, I so badly crave peppermints – I can eat extra strong mints, 3 packets in about 10 minutes, and could keep going – tried to limit to 3 packets a day. It cant be doing my teeth any good
I did see a chinese herbal chappie as my cycle has gone haywire, and tho the herbs smelt absolutely foul they helped tremendously. Did this for bout 3 months last year then stopped, then more recently been seeeing a homeopath, taking nat mur to get cycle back again, but still craving mints badly.
Its nice to find that its not only me – was beginning to feel like a freak.
This post was very interesting. I just had an iron infusion today, my third since 2003. The first time I had one, my hemoglobin (hgl) was down to 6.9 and I had gone seven years with my hgl below 9.0. My first infusion was in 2003, then I had a complete hysterectomy in December of that year. In 1997, I was extremely fatigued and had no energy at all. When my doctor did the blood work, she discovered that my hgl was down to 5.7 and immedately sent me to the hospital for 2 pints of blood. That only brought me up 2 points, so the following Saturday, she sent me for another infusion. Well, in July of last year, my hgl was 18; in November it was down to 10.9; and Thursday it was down to 8.2. Therefore, my doctor sent me to the hospital today for an infusion. In 2007, after having an endoscopy and colonoscipy and evidence of blood loss was found, the gastrointerologist discovered that I have pernicious anemia, so now I have to take B12 shots. My body doesn’t store B12 or iron.
And for the cravings…. I crave peppermints when I’m anemic… I buy bags of peppermints at Walgreens and will go through a 26 oz bag in 2 days. I eat them in the middle of the night and all day long… Usually, once I’ve had the infusion, peppermints don’t taste good to me anymore, but as of right now, I can still eat them, but I’m not craving them…
wow, thats very helpful actually. probably would explain many things that have occurred to me healthwise over the years. perhaps i shud start taking the supplements you mention. I have recently also been seeing a kiniesiologist, a friend practising actually, but she also picked up a sensitivity to wheat and sugar which I have been trying to cut down on – surprising how wheat is in so many food products though, and so this is difficult. But I do have a reduction in indigestion and dont feel so sluggish. So far the nat mur seems to be keeping my cycle together (touch wood) because I dont think I can continue to menstruate every week to 2 weeks – its so draining. I have to stop eating peppermint soon as i really notice my tongue feels odd – like loss of sensation – as I crave them so badly, even typing thinking of eating them makes me want to go out now and buy some – ive never been addicted to anything before, pretty surreal!
Hi everyone,
I have the same problem with low iron. Be careful with the peppermint because it stops iron absorption. I eat a lot of ice too, but I have to find a way to stop eating it because I do not think that it is good for the body. Good luck on your journey!
I found this page during a search for information about pagophagia. I am amazed to have found that everything I have been reading about this is exactly what I have been dealing with! I am an avid ice cruncher to the point, I have to get the chrunching fix at all cost. I’ve unfortunetly cracked one tooth. I am exahusted all the time. Lethargic and tire easily. I also have put on weight and can’t understand why. I thought it may be due to thyroid. But now after reading all of this, I think I may have stumbled onto what is my problem! I am going to the doctor this week to be tested for anemia. I don’t think I have a bleeding problem, but do not eat meat. That may be the cause. I will be so relived if an iron deficiency is the root cause! I will post again after I get my blood work back.
I am a 53 Y/O female and I have been craving crushed ice, pop ice push up popsicles, strong mint wintergreen gum, and listerine. (I don’t want to drink it, I just want to smell it or swish it in my mouth). I spray the Listerine in my air conditioner vents and use as a room spray. I even have a strong urge to sniff it several times a day. These cravings have lead me to believe I have an iron deficiency. I have been taking “Feosol” for about 5 days now and feel a little bit more energetic. I am going to try BSM along with it. Thank you for mention the mint/peppermint cravings, I thought i was going crazy craving it so much.
I have also been warned that tea or coffee blocks iron absorption. I guess no more Sonic Crushed Ice Tea (44 ozs.) for me anymore. I will switch to a Diet Cherry Limeade. Also, I have heard mint or peppermint is not to be eaten when taking homeopathic remedies. I have not heard that mint is not to be taken with iron supplements or that it interferes with iron absorption.
Ok, this is so CRAZY I have NEVER met anyone who is so much like me with the ice issues. I also.
* I chew ice every day – approx 12 x 16oz glasses FILLED to the top with ice.
* I take on average at least 3 evening hot tub soaks a week because I get cold eating so much ice. (I also take a cup of crushed ice to the hot tub with me:).
* I order my ice with a bit of ice tea ??? not the other way around. I ALWAYS order my drinks FULL of ice and sometimes ask for an extra 44 oz of JUST ice. I DO THIS TOO!
* Sonic or the hospital IS the best place on earth to get ice!!
* I have an ice crusher in my frig and I use it several SEVERAL times a day.
* I have been worrying about my teeth because I do eat A LOT of ice.
* I KNOW my crunching is bugs people. My husband and son complain all the time!
——-NEXT——–
* I have Bath & Body works Twisted Peppermint body spray and lotion I use it EVERYTIME I walk into the bathroom
——NEXT———
* I DO have an ulcer but nobody has ever said my ice eating issues are related to this so I find it VERY interesting it COULD be. I have had my iron tested and it was fine BUT I did not know all the other above issues could be a direct result also. Is there ANYWAY you can email me and let me know what your Dr found out I would be very interested and would love to ask my Dr about this also. I am just so excited to know I am NOT the only person in this world who has this issue (smile) Thanks for the Blog and great Photography work too!