Thank you to the sweet commenters who left notes on yesterdays oil paint.?? I loved it so much??and was pretty anxious to post.?? You just don’t capture moments like that very often.?? Problem is…that is now going to be a tough act to follow!
Tori will be having her 6 month immunizations today.?? Better start the Tylenol.?? She is a tad late as she just turned 7 months.?? She thinks she’s at least 3.
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Okay – so what have I done here?
Here is my progress on the business so far:
1.?? Have settled on a name.
2.?? Working on a simple website
3.?? Working on pricing…info…packages..etc
What is causing me to lose sleep?
Pricing.
I had it all determined in my head earlier in the week and then I started questioning myself.?? These are TOUGH choices to make.
On the one hand, I want to charge a substantial enough fee to make it worth the time I spend.?? Because I don’t “have” to do this – I just enjoy photography – that makes it easier because at this stage of my life, growing a business is not my goal right now.?? Gaining experience, improving my skills, paying off my equipment debts, and having some fun is what I am “in this” for.??
However, making it worth it for me, and worth it for other people may be two very different things.
Scenario 1
Initially, Jim and I discussed setting a price for a basic 1.5 to 2 hour package that includes:?? 20 to 30 post processed pictures (this is the typical from all my market research) and presenting those pictures both in color, black and white, and a few of them with different coloring effects for fun.?? The base price would INCLUDE the disc with all pictures and a full copyright release.?? This is pretty much unheard of in this industry.
Advantages:?? 1.?? Parents get all 20 – 30 of the images.?? 2.?? I can set one price and make just one simple package.?? 3.?? I don’t have to take extra time managing printing.?? (Might charge additional fee to print if someone wanted and I would use a pro lab – more details as to what that advantage is but I won’t go into that right now).
Disadvantages:?? 1.?? Could be bad marketing if clients have shots printed at a non pro lab that doesn’t produce high end results.?? 2.?? Could be bad marketing if pictures are put into photobooks that look like??low end??drag and drops.?? 3.?? Not a good way to win friends and influence people in this particular industry?? where other photographers are concerned because very few will sell the disc without charging an arm and a leg?? 3.?? And this is my biggest concern today….it hinders me from being able to evaluate client need and expectation and my own performance based on their perception.?? If I just give a disc to someone, I may get little to no feedback.?? I’ll then wonder if I met the clients expectations.?? I don’t want to overcharge anyone for what they are going to get but I don’t want to undersell my time either because as a homeschooling mama of three – my time is precious right now.??
Scenario 2
Do not release disc.?? Charge a lesser session fee and charge for prints.??
Advantages:?? 1.?? I avoid the disadvantages of the first scenario.?? 2.?? I get to manage the end product which allows me to inspect what I expect as far as outcomes are concerned.?? 3.?? This helps me understand my clientele better – what they like – what they don’t – how much they like it.?? When they evaluate proofs and then place an order, I have a better idea of how successful the shoot was based on how easy/difficult it is for them to choose and how much they order.?? 4.?? This gives more flexibility to client in what they invest.?? If the end product wasn’t what they were looking for, the initial investment was lesser and they don’t have to purchase much or anything.?? 5.?? It MAY give me the opportunity to earn more because most photographers make the vast majority of their income in the prints and not the session fee.
2.?? Disavantages:?? 1.?? I have to manage the proof presentation and print ordering process which will take more time.?? 2.?? I may earn less if people don’t invest much in the prints – therefore, depending on my lower session fee – may end up not making it worth my time.?? 3.?? This could get really expensive for the client if they liked a lot of the proofs.?? Printing cost wouldn’t/couldn’t be super cheap or again…it wouldn’t be worth my time.?? As Dad said, “It isn’t like you are cornering the market on photography – people can go to Walmart or to any other photographer if they wan’t to”. :)??
After discussions with Jim, we both think I would need to earn about $25.00 an hour initially to make it worth my time.?? The goal being to increase my price over time as I gain experience.?? A two hour shoot with set up time, travel time,??and post processing time would end up taking at LEAST 5 to 6 hours of my time.?? This would amount to about $125.00 to $150.00.???? From what I researched online, this is a very common session fee but it is??not all inclusive.?? This price is ONLY the session fee and does not include any amount of printing.?? Again, printing is where??photographers really make their money.?? I don’t intend to charge $125.00 AND THEN charge printing because I am not a pro…yet.:)?? So it would either be $125.00 out the door all inclusive package OR a lesser session fee, no disc, and then make money with printing.?? So can’t decide what to do.?? Charge the above amount and release the disc or charge a lesser amount and hope to make up the difference in printing cost??? Which scenario is to the advantage of both parties???????
As I said, I am working on the website and these decisions may just take me a couple of months to sort out.?? As a result, I probably won’t take on much work until next year.?? I have several promised shoots for friends and family this year anyhow to keep me busy.?? Hoping that if I have several successes, it will boost my confidence and help me feel better about making pricing decisions.?? I want my work to be worth what I charge.????It is still yet to be seen if I am worth what I need to make it “worth” it to me to do.?? Follow that??? 🙂
I also want to include one or two holiday shoots that will probably have a limited session fee, short shoot time (30 min) and no disc release – I’ll do the printing.?? The first one will be in October and I am taking example shots for that hopefully this week.?? Idea is to reserve a couple of days in mid October and schedule a limited number of families.?? This will be babies and children only – not family groups and it will be on a specific fall themed background in my home.?? If all goes according to plan, I’ll give information on that next week for anyone interested.????
Here is what I do know:
My focus will be on:
*?? Newborns
*?? Small children
*?? Maternity
And I will be really excited to offer painting!?? Because it takes about 3 hours, it will be expensive – again a time issue.?? I hope to be the photographer for the pictures that I paint but I may paint existing pictures taken by another photographer as long as they have a copyright release.?? There will be a sliding scale for pricing because all paints are not equal – trust me.
I will also do:
*?? Families
*?? Couples
*?? Seniors
*?? Kids
I do not want to do:
*?? Large family groups
*?? Events
I WILL NOT do:
Weddings?? 🙂
That’s more than enough rambling for one day.?? Off to teach school now.?? All problems and issues do not need to be resolved today.?? 🙂
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18 responses to “What Have I Done?”
Well whatever you charge you can count me in. I have a great camera but just need to learn how to use it the way you do. Then there is the software. I just am feeling lazy, although you are imspireing me to just do it and stop making excuses.
Jere’
Hi Doni..
Love, love LOVE all of the pictures. I think you have an exceptional gift! We just had family pictures done by a photographer that was awesome.. he even photoshopped in my toddler who was not up for having picures that day (just woke up from a nap..and then picture time..what was I thinking?)
Anyway, I thought I would give you his website. He isn’t as creative as you with effects, but its a good reference for pricing and checking out other peoples work. If you want to peek at our portfolio, I can give you the password so you can see ours…just email me.
Best of luck! I wish you the best and look forward to reading about your new adventure!
Hugs,
Chastity
Doni, if I was close by I would 100% get you to take my pictures. What ever you charge, memories are worth every penny. I just wish I was closer to you. I wish you all the best and am looking forward to seeing more wonderful works of art 🙂
I agree with what Johanne said! Good luck in deciding — and remember, if something isn’t working you can always mold it as you go. I do understand wanting to formulate a plan — GOOD LUCK!!
Doni –
Totally valid pricing issues. We had pictures done 18 months ago and ran into exactly the problem you talked about – I loved too many of the proofs and the prints were incredibly expensive. We ended up paying A LOT of money for what we bought. As a customer, the proof process was a pain, too… this is how it went:
Initial consultation – about 1 hour (which we had to find babysitting for) to discuss what we wanted
Photo session – about 2-3 hours
Proof consultation – another hour (which we again had to find babysitting for).
They took a ton of pictures and wittled them down to about 80. At the proof session we (Dave and I) wittled down to 30 for friends and family to choose from. But it was quite a hassle for us to get there and do that.
I am incredibly happy with what we got and if you want specifics on costs/prices for comparison reasons, email me. I get many, many compliments and I think it was worth every cent, but I can’t do it as often as I would like because of the expense:) And we’ve referred many people to these photographers, but again, it is very pricey and not something that a lot of people can fit into the budget.
Here is my thought… why are you stressing over “not a professional” ? Just because you do not have a building that you go to, and employees that work for you does not mean you are not a professional. The quality of your work is professional caliber. As one of your “projects” I am willing to pay whatever you feel is reasonable(on a payment plan of course…lol) because your work is amazing, better than many professional studios I have seen.
There is a quality to your work that I can’t quite explain. You “feel” the photo in a way that makes paying for it worth every penny! God will lead you Doni. He always has!
Soooo. . . will you travel to Houston?!! Only kidding. We do a family reunion in Phoenix every 3 to 5 years so if we have soon I might have to track you down. I would love some paint and prints of my kiddos. Personally to me it seems that you pricing is extremely reasonable. I would rather have someone that is not a “professional” because the none professionals usually care more and try harder.
Doni your work is absolutly amazing. Better than I have seen anywhere. I think your pricing is VERY reasonable. I would love if you would photo my two daughters and would be willing to pay whatever to have you do it. Your photography is so amazing and just oozes love, campassion and talent. I am sure that as people see your work you will have no problem getting clients AND making money at it.
Sounds like a great plan! I can’t wait to hire you when our Snowflake finally comes along! (Which is hopefully SOON!)
OOPS! Doni I think I subconsiously stole the title of your blog for my blog yesterday! 🙂 I had read your blog on my bb earlier in the day – I guess it stuck in my head and came back up when I went to do my first post! I sure am glad you love me! You’re just so inspiring!
Adorable pictures!!!
I will have to re-read through the business pricing ideas and see if I have any comments. But I can say that I’m VERY sad that I don’t live close enough to partake in this business of yours. Will you take oil painting jobs from far away? I will pay you to do one of Devin. 🙂
I am a professional photographer (and have been following your family’s story since little Ty was born – he is the same age as my daughter). Actually, providing the images on CD is becoming more and more common. It is what many clients want and in the digital age it will be hard for us pros to avoid forever. I would never judge what another photographer decides is right for her business. You should do what works for you. My only teeny, tiny bit of advice is to say that if you charge $125 for 5 hours of work that is not making $25 an hour. $25 is your gross. You have to net out all your costs – and be very careful to consider what all of your true costs are, there are way more than you probably think just starting out. Then you will see how much you are truly earning for your time. Best wishes in your new endeavor!
Ok…so my question to you is…..since I have 6 kids does that mean I have a “Large Family” and you wont do it? Or was your large family meaning extented family….cause I am so excited to have you take pics of my kids as soon as you get things up and running!!
Would it be too crazy to offer both pricing options….and the family could choose whats best for them and you could just do each shoot as it goes kinda thing….I understand wanting a plan and I think you have 2 amazing plans. Oh and everybody else is right, you need to forget the part about not being Professional….ya, you put way more thought and effort into all your shoots than any photographer I’ve ever seen! I had a maternity shoot done and the photographer reminded me a bit of you…she was so awesome that she came to my hospital room 24hrs before I delivered my last baby and put sheets up arcoss the room and did such a good job capturing the moment..I will cherish the photos forever! Goodluck with whatever you decide!!
doni, first of all, congrats on starting your own business! i’m excited for you and a bit jealous…having been in the “biz” for about 6 years now, i can tell you lots about the different ways we’ve done stuff here at the studio–what’s worked and what hasn’t. most of my friends here do weddings and other assorted photography as a side. i agree that you could offer both options. one of my wedding photographer friends has about 3-5 options at different price plans, and we constantly offer more than one option here at the studio–people like choices, and if you tell them this is the only way you do something, they may get stubborn and not want to hire you. check out our family site (it’s kind of basic right now–off the regular site by a link at the top of the page–the 7th picture is me, my dad, my stepmom, and the doggies from 2 years ago!) and the pricing is up there, too. we definitely make more money on the prints and the framing than the sittings. for seniors this year, we’re doing a DVD slideshow for their proofs–mailing the DVD and ordering info, then they can mail or fax back their order, or come in and order with a salesperson. we’re looking at setting up online ordering too–we also do online viewing of their pictures. our family business isn’t too large right now, we’re mostly school photographers, but we’re getting into business sittings and other assorted photography. whenever someone calls and says we’re too expensive, i like to remind them that we are professional photographers with a beautiful studio and top of the line equipment, they are paying for the photographer’s time, and if they want $1.99 pictures they can take them themselves or go to Wal-Mart! (which i’m also not opposed to…we took my nephew there when he was a baby–you get lots of pictures for $5!)
When i first started taking school pictures here, i made up some “business” cards to hand out at the end of the season to the people i worked with (it was a seasonal job and we were all let go) and put on it “semi-professional photography” kind of as a joke. someone told me that once you’ve gotten paid for taking pictures, you’re not “semi” anymore–you’re just “professional”! that’s stayed with me and i try to not lessen what i do, my love for art, and the effort and talent it takes to do…whether or not i actually sell anything or even if anyone wants to see my pictures or not! so, let me know if you have any questions or want me to find out more info for you. i’ll do anything i can to help you!
also, when i come to visit next time, can you take pictures of me, mom, and the dogs??? :o) and i might want you to do a painting of a picture or two that i’ve taken…!!!
hi to the boys and jimmy!
~meg
oops…forgot to say hi to your cutie pie, tori!
I paid 3500$ for a single painting of Aimee. Take the pictures and let the people decide what there worth with a baseline price. The painting means more to me because it was a sacrifice to buy it. Just my thoughts.
Your brother,
David
My 2 cents…hehe. First, if you aren’t a professional, I don’t think they exist. You have an amazing ability to capture the moment and or personality of the person you are photographing. Second, when I was shopping for a photographer I didn’t even consider ones that wouldn’t give me my digital negatives. As far as worrying about your “company image/product” if a client were to print their photos at Walmart or similar places, when I printed some of my wedding photos at Walgreens the beauty and quality of them were not diminished, even though the professionally printed ones are a little nicer and will probably stand the test of time longer. As a consumer my ideal package would include digital negatives, a few of the typical size prints (8x10s, 5x7s & wallets for example) and the option to buy more if necessary. Pretty much your scenario #1 but add in a few must buy prints for a bulk price. Give them an a la carte option for more if they want. I’m so excited for you, I think this is going to be a great venture for you. Love you! xoxo
i don’t have time to read all the comments… but i do see that others are saying FORGET THE NOT A PROFESSIONAL THING! and i agree completely. i also think you need to lose the “what if they don’t get what they want from me” idea. not that i don’t value the customer. 🙂 it’s just this – anyone who chooses you as a photographer, especially initially, KNOWS what kind of work you do – THAT IS WHY THEY CHOSE YOU! there is no reason to believe you’d do anything less beautiful for them. besides – you have consultation with them to assess their wants and needs – they could even provide samples (by web links or magazine tear outs or whatever) to give you a visual for something they want that maybe you’ve not seen… but they chose you because they like your work. if they don’t like the end result they are crazy. 🙂 🙂 🙂 😉 HOWEVER – if YOU are not happy with the results you could show them the work and always offer a reshoot… i can imagine that would be EXTREMELY rare.
price yourself for what YOUR FAMILY wants/needs right now or it will not be worth it. in your efforts to remain humble, do NOT shortchange yourself. you’ve got to get over that (imho) 😉 hee hee… NO I AM NOT JUST BEING AN ENCOURAGING SISTER… it’s just obvious you are good enough and don’t need any kind of label. professionalism isn’t so much about title as it is about quality, effort, integrity… no questions there for you!
ok – that’s it… i’m at the library computer and need to research why MY computer isn’t working. 🙂
ok – ONE more thing… isn’t there a website that offers professional printing? one where you could upload photos and give the customer a loginor something – where they could go to choose their prints and order what they want? taking you out of the middle but still giving you some control about what is available and how/where it gets printed? (alleviating your concern that they won’t get it printed in high enough quality to show your work properly)
also (ok 2nd thing) 🙂 you could provide the disk for an extra fee and not worry about it – let the images speak for themselves and anyone curious about your work will likely head to your website where they will see YOUR expression of your work in it’s purest form. there’s always the disclaimer that can be included on the paperwork you clients sign stating that you cannot guarantee the quality of prints when customers take the disk and have them printed themselves. you can only guarantee when you use a professional lab of choice… something like that. ok… goodbye. 🙂